Smokers Vs. American Lung Association

05.13.2005

Sounds like a joke, right? The AP reports:

Smoking rights groups, bar owners and Libertarian political parties are taking aim at some major charities. They say the charities support smoking bans that threaten civil rights and small business.

The groups in nine states complain that charities such as the American Cancer Society, American Lung Association and American Heart Association use their lobbying power to help write state and local smoking bans.

You know, I'm no supporter of cancer. However, I happen to agree with those who are opposing the ACS, ALA, and AHA's recent campaign to get smoking banned in all public places. I have two reasons:

1. Its fine to ban smoking in just about every public place. But why do they have to go after bars? I mean, folks: we're talking BARS here. At the very least, I think they should give us one last place to keep our vices, and a bar seems as good of a place as another.

2. Clearly, this tactic is intended to setup a legal precedent to ban smoking all together. And, if you don't already know why that's a terrible idea, than you're not worth talking to.

Comments

DISCRIMINATION!!!!

I am a smoker! I try no to impose or harm any one with my "second hand smoke" but I truly RESENT being treated like some criminal because I have a "nasty habit". I wish that there was more focus on criminals, child molesters, drug addicts, etc. I don't rob anyone for my smokes and it does no impair my judgement when I am driving. I am a hard working tax paying person. And yet, because I smoke I am nearly alienated from society. This is really a bunch of bull and believe this "anti- smoking" has gone to an extreme!! There MUST be a way of fighting back.

Welcome new ETS study.

Good news! A huge just released study indicates that the damage to public health from ETS is much less than once thought. Smoking bans may not be necessary after all! Press Release For Immediate Release: December 5 , 2005 Do Smoking Bans cause a 27 to 40% drop in admissions for myocardial infarction in hospitals? December 5, 2005 Antismokers claim that studies have shown that bans bring about an immediate and drastic decrease in heart attacks among nonsmokers exposed to smoke at work. This claim was never true to begin with - the cited studies never separated and analyzed nonsmokers as a separate group - and it has now been pointed out in the pages of the BMJ that even the claim of saving lives among the combined population of smokers and nonsmokers might be worthless. While many making that claim may have believed their information to be accurate, it is now obvious that its basis has been thrown strongly into question. As Jacob Sullum noted in a December 1st reaction to the announcement, "An effect this dramatic (i.e. an immediate and pronounced drop of hospital admissions for heart attacks) should have been noticed all over the country..." Just a week before the Chicago Aldermen were due to vote on a citywide smoking ban, two independent researchers working together, David W. Kuneman and Michael J. McFadden, unveiled a new study covering a population base roughly 1,000 times as large as the previous town-based studies. The new study indicates strongly that rather than a 30% decrease in heart attacks, statewide smoking bans seem to have literally NO EFFECT AT ALL on heart attack rates. Incredibly the data even indicates that California's statewide heart attack rate went UP by 6% in the first full year of their total smoking ban! The data for the study and the basis of its design have been backed up and expanded by well-known antismoking researcher Michael Siegel who has come out in support of the researchers' approach as providing "compelling evidence that brings into question the conclusion that smoking bans have an immediate and drastic effect on heart attack incidence." His observation is echoed by researcher Kuneman who asks, "Ever wonder why you didn't hear about post ban heart attack declines in New York City? Or in Minneapolis or Los Angeles? Now you know!" On December 4th the British Medical Journal entered the fray with the online publication of a Rapid Response by Mr. McFadden outlining the new research and posing sharp criticisms of the earlier studies and of the refusal of the authors of those studies to respond to previous criticisms and questions. McFadden points out that the data in the Kuneman/McFadden study are fully open for public examination and far less selective than the data in the earlier studies and notes with pride that he and his co-researcher have been quick to respond to all queries posted about their methodology on Dr. Siegel's web blog. He also poses the wider ranging question of whether studies commissioned by the "Antismoking Industry" should begin to receive the same cautious reception accorded those commissioned by "Big Tobacco." The current study, as well as an earlier one by the duo, were unfunded and neither researcher receives grants for their work from either interest group. Kuneman sharply asks the question, "Why the difference between the studies? For one thing we weren't dependent on antismoking-targeted grants!" At this point there appears to be very little, if any, real scientific support for the claim that protecting nonsmokers from normal levels of exposure to secondary smoke prevents any heart attacks. And it is this claim that has always provided the impressive numbers upon which ban advocates have pressed legislators to pass smoking bans. Without those numbers proponents of extreme bans are left with little other than the widely discredited EPA figures relating ETS to lung cancer and a few isolated instances of hospitality workers who have come to believe that their own cancers were caused by working in smoking establishments. Samantha Phillipe, editor of the longstanding smokersclubinc.com newsletter, notes that while it's always a cause for sadness when someone becomes ill that it's even more sad when they are misguidedly advised to blame family and friends for their illness. Without a compelling body of scientific evidence backing them up, smoking bans are an unnecessary and overbearing intrusion of government into the spheres of free choice, private property and free enterprise. And the Kuneman/McFadden study points up just how uncompelling even some of the strongest and most publicised evidence actually is. References: 1) Article: A Preliminary Study 2) Mike Siegel's blog analysis and follow up comments: 3) BMJ Response: Helena 1000 Days 4) Jacob Sullum's REASON column: Hit and Run Michael J. McFadden Author of "Dissecting Antismokers' Brains" Mid-Atlantic Regional Director of SmokersClubInc.com web page: http://pasan.thetruthisalie.com/ Email: Cantiloper@aol.com

Smokers Vs. American Lung

The bigger problem than even the smoking issue continues to be the tendancy of most Americans (myself included) to only discuss problems in extremes. Either you love or hate it; we can rarely have real dialogue about our issues without fighting. As a smoker aware of the health risks, I do not wish to force my vice on anyone or harm others with second hand smoke. Obviously, we all do some things that damages the environment and others. Even naturally, man's excrement, in high coinsintration and without proper disposal can kill. Whether it is driving a car, smoking, buying chemically manufactured products or using our sewage system, we all have to start realizing that we can not moralize some health issues while ignoring others. If smoking and driving are both legal, I would rather see people stop driving and honetlsy believe this is a bigger problem. However, we need to stop being afraid of having a real discussion of the health risks smoking causes and start finding solutions that promote everyone's freedom to choose. Maybe we can install more sophisticated ventillation for bars that want indoor smoking, or just promote outdoor, covered and heated places for smokers at bars. The anti-smoking moralists have pushed laws to such an extreme that on many occassions I have been discriminated against and/or treated as a second class citizen just because I choose a legal vice. Recently, on a 14 hour train trip, where others could drink, watch tv or caffeinate themselves freely, I could not smoke anywhere and the official "smoke-stops" were so quick that I was lucky to get 1/2 a cigarette. They could have easily had a separate open air car at the end for smokers or just provided a few more minutes at smokje stops. I will never claim smoking is a healthier choice than not smoking, but it is, and will remain, my choice no matter what laws state. Come on America, even anti-smokers should be standing up for the basic freedoms being taken away in the name of moralized legislation. Let's start the dialogue: Aaron Clark am_clark@msn.com

Here's an idea...

I am a smoker and I hate to impose on anyone who doesn't smoke only because I am a polite person. Smoke free restaurants don't really bother me that much. Smoke free bars do. Things have gone way too far in this crazy new world of political correctness. When I see 'no smoking' neighborhoods in L.A. I just want to move to a different country... you know, one that promotes and allows personal freedoms. 

What brought me to this site was that I felt the need to vent after reading all the red tape around the new Marlboro Ultra Smooth cigarettes.  In my opinion, the company put forth an effort to reduce the harmful effects of a cigarette and would most likely get sued if they promoted it as  a less harmful cigarette. Catch 22. I have an idea: First of all- make cigarettes illegal. As long as they are legal it should be considered hypocritical for the government to jump on Phillip Morris the way they have for the past several years- not to mention the fact that they make a cut by consistently raising the taxes on cigarettes (don't get me started on alcohol ;-) Couldn't they take all the time, money and effort thrown at big tobacco and use it to do a little genetic research to come up with a highly addictive cigarette type product that actually cures cancer, relieves anxiety and prolongs your life? I'm pretty sure a lot of people would switch their brand of smoke pretty quickly... and just think of the profits!

Boycott or Donate?

We posted the AP story on our blog, and offered readers a choice...boycott or donate online to the American Lung Association of Minnesota. Which do you think they will choose? http://www.alamn.org/media/blogger.html

Re: the so-called boycott

Nick: Thanks for the response, and the opportunity to reply. I realize that there are a number of people "pissed off" about smoking bans. They believe these laws -- and organizations like ours that publically support them -- are "anti-smoker" or take away personal freedoms.

The American Lung Association of Minnesota has never been "anti-smoker." To paraphrase a well-known religious phrase, we love the smoker, but hate the smoke. At the heart of all smoking ordinances is the very real health concerns about secondhand smoke, especially for those who work in smoky bars and restaurants for many hours. Do smoking bans put restrictions on adults using a legal product? In certain places, yes. Like all freedoms, the freedom to smoke is not absolute.

In terms of our resources, we have three times the staff working on outdoor air pollution than tobacco controll issues. Our respiratory care division, those who deal directly with asthma and other lung diseases is our largest by far, with 10 times the staff that our tobacco control has. We operate a national program on cleaner and healther homes (Health House) and helped establish the nation's largest network of cleaner-burning alternative fuel stations (130 and counting) in Minnesota to reduce vehicle exhaust, the single largest source of outdoor air pollution in MN.

Our role in the Tobacco Wars makes headlines, but we are doing so much more.

One final point: many people wrongly assume that outdoor air pollution is a greater health concern than secondhand smoke. A number of independent studies suggest otherwise, finding that the air inside many bars and restaurants is far worse than outdoor air in America's most polluted urban areas.

If this sounds unbelievable to you, consider the pollution a single car makes during a daily commute -- a statistical drop in the bucket. Now take the same car and leave it running in a closed garage for 15 minutes...Highly concentrated and dangerous. Secondhand smoke works the same way indoors, hence the need for clean indoor air laws.

Simliar thinking here..

I tend to agree but am torn about the bar issue, as some folks have to work there...

As in, it is their job, what if they like bar tending and that is the skill they have?  Should they not be protected in the work place?  Tricky to sort this out I think...

What browser are you all

What browser are you all using ? I can't see the text right.

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